Advice on making a wedding album (from a photographer)

[Gavin Photography]

This post is open for suggestions and recommendations, since I will never claim to be all-knowing about wedding albums! This is just what I have seen in my short existence as a wedding photographer:

1. Start with good photographs - this seems obvious, but make sure you choose a wedding photographer that gives you great images to start out with. I always say, "From great images you can make a great album in 1 year or in ten years; if you have bad images the album is going to blow." Yeah, I actually tell couples that. Make sure you get digital negatives of:
-details, like the cake, venue, flowers, etc.
-the important people (photographers don't know your favorite uncle, so clue them in)
-each event (duh, but make sure they are ready and have time. I've had bad DJs start cake-cuttings without me)
-photojournalistic moments along with traditional shots, which varies on your taste. I have found that traditional images (formals, etc.) are the base of the album while artistic and photojournalistic images provide the flair.
-get images that tell a story of the day. Make sure that you have getting ready shots (even if they are not professional). Make sure you have pictures of people dancing the night away. Which brings me to point two....

2. Tell a story with the book- this usually means going in chronological order. You can deviate of course, like having a page with 12 images where each image is of when someone puts bunny ears on someone else. Make sure that the album captivates the reader. Few albums have images that wow with each page turn (that's more of a portfolio), so it helps to add structure. Please use the "all pages" feature to move pages around and add more pages where the story needs clarification (or to just fill it with some more good photos).

3. Use negative space- just because you can fill the whole page with images (and you are paying for it) does not mean you have to. Having a single small image in the middle of the page can have a dramatic effect. Just try it and see if it works for your specific album.

4. If you can, do some post-production, carefully- if you know how to edit photos, remember that most other programs are better at removing redeye, color and white balancing, changing levels, and doing whatever than the album software. This only applies to those that can do it, but this comes with a word of caution to those that photoshop. Try not to go nuts with the other effects, such as super soft glow (dated to the 80's and 90's), unnatural solar flares, or other plugins that turn a good photograph into something cheesy. Getting that Andy Warhol look takes good taste and a careful eye and can quickly turn bad in a heartbeat.

5. Simple is underrated- sometimes the best layout is with one image on a page, bled to the edges. This works if the image is good enough to stand alone. Don't cheapen great images with mismatched layouts.

6. Have fun- be silly, romantic, exciting, or traditional. Mix it up, but group it together. Use blurry shots that didn't come out and use them in a sequence of images, with the last one being that perfect moment. This image:
http://www.gavinphotography.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/c2fe0470.JPG
is slightly blurry due to the low light and non-posed nature of the shot (I literally chased her down the spiral stairs), but it doesn't have to be tack sharp to look amazing in an album. Have a full page image on one side of a beautiful moment, with the opposite side having a blooper collage of nine photos that were needed to get there. Show sequences of events in line, like the bouquet toss before, during, and after. I did one page for an album for my girlfriend where it had 12 images in a grid, all of which that had me and her with me holding the camera. You know, the Myspace pic with the arm in the side of the shot. They usually are "okay" pictures, but having a bunch on one page from many different settings gives the page more power and meaning.

7. Use Black and White- Trust me on this one. If the image looks bland, try black and white. I used this image on the front of an album with a black cover:
http://www.gavinphotography.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/melissakevin-11.jpg
I used this one as the last image of the album, full page (with nothing of course on the other side, the inside cover), as a last statement:
http://www.gavinphotography.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/lauracesar-14.jpg
Black and white has a magical, timeless feel. But, on the flip side, don't destroy a great color image for black and white's sake. This image is more effective in color:
http://www.gavinphotography.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/c2fe0635.JPG
Black and white would destroy the beautiful red saturation that makes the white dress stick out of the crowd.

I'm spent. Please follow up, professional photographer or not, and give your suggestions, comments, and corrections.

Gavin
http://www.gavinphotography.com/

[GOLDENONYX]

Thanks for the great tips. I'm a photography student and I'm shooting my sister's wedding in June. I came up with a lot of great ideas for the photo book, but I hadn't thought of some of those you mentioned. Wish me luck!

[smile]

Great Advice
It is really important to have the BEST photos. I used your ideas and hired the professional to shoot the whole thing. pre ceremony , getting ready etc. we even invited him to the rehersal so he good get an idea of what was going to happen. Then we purchased all of the photo proofs and jpeg files. I can't wait to see our book.

[Julianh]

Gavin, do you pick the photos for the album, or let the client pick them?

[Gavin Photography]

That's a tough one...

I find that whenever my couples choose photos they like, they choose the simple "say cheese" pictures over the edgier, artistic stuff. This contradicts the taste of the photographer, who has seen hundreds of thousands of photographs (I've been shooting for only one year and I've hit over 100K already) and knows which ones are exceptional compared to the photographic community.

Also there are issues of the layout, which maximizes the usage of the images. Most people are picking images as individual pieces, instead of seeing the album as a whole. Also there are issues of flow, where the album must make sense (like telling a story).

So the question is: do you trust the photographer or simply trust what the couple likes?

I'm starting albums this upcoming year. Thanks to your input, I think my solution would be this:

1. I choose the images and layout based on my taste and experience
2. There is a review process where the couple gets to make changes and gets the final OK

I've seen other photographers that do this and it works well. There is more overhead, but it does two things. Couples that are delegate responsibility will trust the photographer on the first round and everything is great. Couples that are more specific will get to add their favorites on top of the photographer's decisions. This way the album is still done by a professional but gets the personalization of the people using it the most.

Please tell me what you think of that; your input will help me decide what is best for my brides in the coming years.

[laeta904]

First, I think the suggestions in your original post are excellent! Now on to my suggestions for you about designing an album for clients.

I think that this is probably a good album design plan. I think, though, that possibly adding one step at the beginning would solidify it as a GREAT plan. I would ask the B&G to pick maybe 15-20 (or maybe a little less than half the total number of photos to be included in the album) of their favorite images before you begin your first draft of the album design. This will allow you to automatically include most or all of their favorites, plus, it will give you a good idea of the type of images they like, which will probably influence the style in which you create the first draft of the album and lessen the chance that you will need to make drastic edits if the B&G don't like it. Some B&Gs might even surprise you by picking those edgier images as their faves, I know I did!

Before my own wedding, I pictured sitting right next to the photographer as they designed the entire album (several days worth of appointments until they got it EXACTLY like I wanted it). I still have not been able to afford to purchase a professional album, but my design philosophy has changed quite a bit since then, and I'm sure whenever I can afford to purchase a professional album, my photographer will be very appreciative of my altered perception of the process. What changed? Well, that would be the fact that my husband now works as a professional videographer/photographer for weddings and other events, and I now work part time as his assistant. Nothing is more frustrating to my husband than when one of his clients insists on sitting right next to him as he edits. The most annoying part is that I am FULLY aware that my husband can create an incredible video or album without any input at all from the client, and a client who insists on approving every detail (especially ridiculous if they want to approve every millisecond in a video) is basically inferring that my husband is not good enough to do the job right. (And if they feel that is the case, why did they hire him in the first place?)

Anyway, my view now is that a B&G or other client hires a professional for a reason, and they need to trust that professional to create something wonderful for them (especially since the creativity of the professional will almost always lead to a MUCH better final product), with some input from the client but without approval over every millisecond/millimeter. However, I LOVE that "normal people" now have the option to come here or other photobook websites to create something themselves (even if that means every single layout is the exact same and every photo is one of the "say cheese" poses) that can express a different side of an event and which is extremely affordable and accessible. I LOVE MyPublisher!

[Rachel]

Would you recommend this site for making "professional" wedding albums?

[cliffbatson]

No, I wouldn't consider mypublisher to be "professional" - but I could see creating some "gift" albums here.

I'm a professional photographer and after my wife and I were married 3 years ago, we created a few small paperback gift albums for our parents. My cost on our wedding album was $350+ but it was very nice... printed on real photographic paper - not press-printed.

We went to Europe for two weeks this summer. My wife and I are creating a big photo album (classic hardcover) to give to each of our family members who went on the trip with us. It's going to look great. To me, this is a good use of mypublisher.

Professional wedding albums are generally printed on photographic paper and are designed so that there is either no seam or a very tiny gap in the center between a two-page "spread". This allows a wide, panoramic shot to span two pages without a "gutter" getting in the way. Pro albums are really handbound books and are expensive. Some of them cost the photographer over $1k... that's why they're so expensive for the bride and groom. (Well, that and all the post-production time in Photoshop that is required to make the images look the best they can be.)

[irusan]

I couldn't agree more with clifbatson.

The MyPublisher books are fine for gifts (actually, they're excellent for those) as well as for couples who don't have the budget for a professional album (although I have plenty of opinions on that).

The one item that most couples neglect to think about is the post-production time in Photoshop. I can easily spend 15-30 minutes (sometimes more, depending on the desired effect) per final image. Sometimes less, granted. And that's working with fully calibrated equipment!

But, as long as the couple realizes they are getting a press printed book and not an album - or they are buying them as gift books for the wedding party, etc. - this is a great option!

[laurenmac]

Irusan, I'm curious what your opinions are on clients not having the budget for a professional album. I am a new wedding photographer and I am wondering about offering books such as mypublisher to clients who otherwise may not do an album at all or as an addition to a traditional matted album. I would be sure they saw samples of all and recognized the quality they would lose.
Interested in your thoughts.
Thanks

[asmit4]

I would bet my paycheck that if he were to be honest- he would say that while having the greatest photos to work with that you can afford is a great start- there is no substitute for a real photographer working with and organizing a real album.

Of course, this opinion comes from a person that is a real photographer who's livelyhood depends on people that are not skilled, believing that they are no match to a photographer.

I can say that paying for an album 1K, 2K or more doesn't mean your album will turn out well. I have a girlfriend of mine that just got married. I saw her album. She went with a highly recommended place in our area for a vendor. She paid to have him stay the entire day. With the package she got an 2 parent albums and 1 big album. She paid 4K for that. NO, she did not get the pictures, the rights to those pictures or EVEN the proofs in an album to keep.

I recently saw her album and I felt SOOOO bad. Her album was a standard album- not a flushmount. It was the kind that has "insert here" areas like 4 ovals on a page or 1 8x10 on a page. Her album was a 30 sided page- so 15 pages, double sided.

The pictures he took were not good to start with....MOST photos were a "stand here and smile type"....she had 1 with her and gma staring at the camera smiling and posed, 1 of her family, smiling and posed, 4 of her BM's all in ovals, smiling and posed. Nothing really unique or different, no closeups of details like flowers, no "pictures on pictures", no pictures that showed emotion like the flowergirl sleeping or her mom wiping a tear- even those to me are "standard" and her album had none of those.

Perhaps it was because with a 30 sided album there is no room for anything more than the basic points. 1 kiss, 1 unity candle lighting, 1 of each BM and GM, one of her in her dress, 1 of him in is tux, a couple of her alone, 1 with gma, one with mom, 1 first dance, 1 cake cutting. By the time you add all the "must put in" photos in a 30 sided album with a max of 4 photos per page, you are basically done! Of course you want a few 8x10's that are the nicer ones too in the album so that means even LESS photos.

I am not saying that this is the norm, or that you can't get a great photographer with an amazing album too- but that will come at a cost....and as exhibited above, in her case, even 4K didn't do it.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and regardless of price, I think our album is LOADS better than hers was, it had a theme, emotion, it told a story- hers just seemed like blank boring photos filled in the holes.

In contrast- I have seen some layouts done via photoshop from photographers on this site. Some are great! Some have posted that MP is "bad" and that doing your own albums is "bad" b/c THEIR work as a PROFESSIONAL is MUCH better....

WELL? I looked at some of their "professional books" they made for others- ya know- the flushmount expensive kind? Their layouts were CRAP. Once again- no imagination, no story being told, no real design. Someone even said that their books were "professional and b/c he had a professional eye for what looks good, his were better than a lay person's"

I disagreed and told him that I was glad he was NOT my photographer and glad that I didn't entrust him to make my album either! :)

The bottom line is- do what you can afford, good photos are a great start, and even an expensive photographer and album doesn't always guarantee great results! :) A badly put together flushmount from a "professional" is a waste, just as a badly put together MP book is a waste...

Make 100% sure that you like the style of the albums they choose, make sure you like the style of photography. Ask to see FULL entire albums- not just the "best of" shots.

The 1 true fact is that no matter how much you spend or don't spend, YOU have to like the final product, nobody else. I'm sure that a professional photographer could look at my MP book and find problems and flaws- but I can't b/c I don't have that expertise. The photos look great to me! I bet that no "regular joe" wil look at my albums and think "unprofessional"....in fact, everyone I've shown them to has raved about it and asked WHO made it- as in WHAT photographer- when I tell them I made it they practically fall off their chair :)

Also, I've had people on these very boards compliment me, someone even said my book pages were better than many photographers pages.

I know you stated that you were a photographer, a new one, well, I can with 100% certainty say that LOTS of brides would love these books as an alternative- I know I would! Oh, 1 more thing, PLEASE give your brides the option to keep the proofs and at the very least "buy the rights" to their photos. I realize that it's nice to make 30 bucks on an 8x10 but being new to the game- give brides a break :)

[irusan]

Hi Lauren,

My opinion is this (and this is strictly applying to people who don't go the traditional album route). The people that don't go for traditional albums fall into two simple groups:

1. They can't afford it. For this group of people, it's absolutely wonderful that products like these press books exist. They're inexpensive and the couple can have a picture book to commemorate their day.

2. They won't afford because, for any variety of reasons, they don't understand the value of the traditional album and are basing choice on price alone.

It's this second group where I have concerns.

First, let's look at the difference between a coffee-table style book like these from MyPublisher and a traditional album.

Biggest difference is longevity. Press books are not printed on archival paper - the ink will start to fade in about 10 years (sooner or later, depending on where and how they are kept) and the paper will start to turn yellow. A properly constructed wedding album will use acid-free paper, ph-balanced glue, and be shipping in an acid-free box. Quality wedding albums will always outlast the marriage - whether the couple gets divorced quickly or they pass away after 60+ years of marriage. A traditional album is something that your grandchildren can have.

Then there's value. There are only three physical things that a couple has after their wedding ceremony: themselves, their rings, and their photographs. Thinking back to the first point, I try to educate my clients that they, as a couple, are better served by spending some extra money on a traditional album for themselves. How many times do you see the couple spending an extra $10-15 per person to upgrade to a premium bar package? If there are 200 people at the reception, that's an extra $2000-3000 just for alcohol at a reception and, when was the last time you heard people talk about how great the bar service was? If the couple is going to spend the money anyway, why not spend it on something that will last longer than a few hours and that the couple can enjoy?

Then there's print versus photograph. Besides the longevity issue, photographs have higher contrast, deeper saturation of colors, and truer hues than press prints. There is a significant quality difference between a print and a photograph; photographs can display a higher dynamic range on photographic paper than a digital press can on heavy gloss stock.

The decision by people not to spend the extra money on a traditional quality album is usually made because they have not been told all the differences.

There are some people here who, because they themselves don't get it, want to sell on price alone. If that works for them, good for them. There are clients who will always look for the cheapest and there are photographers and designers who will pander to them and "win" their business; until someone comes along who is even cheaper.

They're not stealing my clients, because my clients understand value over price and they get what they pay for. I gladly let others undercut and sell on price.

As you build your wedding photography business, to be successful you have to ensure your clients walk away happy with the value of what you have provided them.

All that being said, these types of books are great for parents, grandparents, relatives, bridal parties, etc. But there are reasons why traditional albums cost more and are still around.

Remember, there is no glory in being the cheapest whore on the corner. :D

[irusan]

Asmit4,

Up until a few weeks ago, your posts were helpful, friendly, and polite. Although I (and MyPublisher) disagree with your use of PowerPoint as a layout program, it was just a case of differing opinions. I never once made a comment about YOUR integrity or honesty, yet you feel compelled to call mine into question.

Whatever.

I have no idea why your posts have, lately, become filled with anger and vitriol; nor do I care.

Something happened to you and you've decided to use these forum posts as a way to vent and imply that all professional photographers are out to make a fast dollar only. A few more of your typical rants and people will start to become as bored with your invectiveness as I am.

The moment you feel like it's time to stop trolling and enter a real discussion, I'll be happy to engage you. Until then, shout at the sky all you want if it helps.

[abczoo]

Opinions - everybody's got one!

I actually think EVERYONE should remember that - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What pleases one person might not please the next person.

And if someone wants to and is able to spend thousands on their wedding photographs and album, then that is what they should do.

And if someone else wants to create their album here with MyPublisher, then that is what they should do.

This space is supposed to be helpful, remember that too!

[Nommo4life]

I have a question for the photographers out there White Glove First edition or MyPublisher? I am currently about to hire a photographer for my wedding she stated her time and the rights to 80 images would cost me 2500. If I wanted an album that would be another 2800-3500 per album for 40 pictures. Is this too much or will I be disappointed by MyPublisher and end up want to get the album anyway?

[irusan]

Is the $2500 for usage rights or for transfer of copyright?

For your own peace of mind, find out! The difference is that usage rights will give you very specific limits with what you can do with the images. Transfer of copyright means you now own the images and can do whatever you want with them and the photographer needs special permission from you to use them (including making a print and hanging it in her studio).

One is not better than the other, just very different. Your photographer sounds like she knows what she's doing and will be able (and probably willing) to answer questions about that before signing.

So, traditional album or MyPublisher book? Let me make a suggestion before you make a decision (assuming there is time).

Since you are already looking at spending $2500 for some form of album, spend another $25 to do a test.

Build a small paperback pocket book for $13 using some decent images that you already have. Then, send those same images to an online photo lab. I use Mpix (www.mpix.com) and order a 4x6 of each image in your pocket book. Compare the difference between the MP book and the photos. If you like the MP book enough, then get the usage rights from your photographer and do your own layout. There's nothing more special than being able to have your own fingerprint on the album. If you prefer the photographs, then have the photographer build your album. Keep in mind that a photo album is a 'photo album' and will be, for the most part, devoid of fancy design beyond what the album maker provides.

When you do the comparison, stay away from Wal-Mart, or Costco, or Target, or.... Mpix is a professional lab and will provide the same level of quality photograph of any other pro lab and you'll get results similar to your photographer. There is also BayPhoto Pro as well as White House Custom Colour.

Instead of trusting a bunch of strangers on the Internet with answering what you should do, (thanks for that trust, by the way) do an inexpensive comparison.

Also, do note the issue of longevity. That's absolutely nothing against MyPublisher - it's an issue with any kind of press printed product from any company.

Rob

[vrjenia]

In response to irusan's previous post which asked the (probably rhetorical, but I'll address it anyway) question of "when is the last time you remember someone commenting on the bar service at a wedding?"

Actually, in my circle, that's one of the most discussed items of weddings we attend. I don't think it is unreasonable (actually, I think it is quite considerate) of brides and grooms to skimp on getting a professional album to have a well stocked bar.

I had a $30K wedding and I'm doing my album through my publisher. I don't fault people that want nice albums, but to me having a party that was memorable for me and fun for my guests was more important.... so some of my photographery budget went for things like a margarita machine and having an awesome venue for the reception.

Just my opinion though... to each their own : )

[asmit4]

Vrjenia- at our wedding the alcohol was top shelf and free flowing. Lots of people commented on it. Our wedding was only 86 guests and we had 2 bartenders to make sure there were no lines, 3 for the first hour of the reception- this was also commented on. In fact, when I brought in my MP album to show coworkers- one of them made a comment about how great our bar was and how the wine and alcohol was top shelf. Our wedding was well over a year ago, and she still remembered. Last Christmas everyone was commenting on how great our wedding was and all around my cousins and aunts/uncles at dinner were saying how fun it was to have top shelp bar with all the trimmings :)

Everybody's gotta do what they gotta do. A lot of people would rather use the $$$ for a better honeymoon or a fancier dress, or a flushmount album-it's all about priorities. I just wanted the best photographer my $$ could buy and the rights to the photos and that's what I got. I really wanted to be able to make my own albums, to scrapbook and print as many prints as I wanted for whoever wanted them without high fees. It's all about what each person values and needs are.

Heck, I know brides that think the "big party" is a waste of $$$ and just skipped the reception concept and had a small wedding with dinner at a restaurant- once again- all about what you want and value.

[shadesofgray1]

I am not a pro photographer "per se", but I do photographic work and I know that not everyone can afford the 2800-3500 that you stated in your email. I say take whatever images you have (hers or some that friends and family took, or even a combination of both), make a MyPublisher book and see if it's something that you like. It would cost around $100-200 (and that would be a pretty big book and before the discount) to discover whether or not it's the type of quality and book publishing that will make you happy for capturing your special day. If not, then you can pony up the big bucks and buy her album. Just know that MyPublisher is one option, although maybe not the best choice for everyone. (I personally like their books and I make the professional books, too!)

Good luck and congratulations on your upcoming wedding!

[Melcmuro]

Hi Irusan,

You speak of traditional photo albums. Were can you get a traditional photo album made? I got married over 9 years ago and never got a album made up due to the fact that I didn't have the money or the right photographer. He did however give us the negatives to make up an album ourselves. I can't find a place that would assist me in making the book. Could you suggest were I could go and have the book made up.

Thank you.
Mel

[steph_c]

That seems a little high to me! I just got married in Sept and recieved my photographs back last week; we recieved 275 proofs in a wedding album, a full days service from the photographer and 10 8x10's of our choice for $1400! I also bought the cd with all the pictures on it for $250 extra. Now that didn't come with any wedding albums just the proof book which is beautiful!

[asmit4]

I think that cost is different nationally. I have even seen great variances locally too. You can find a photographer for 1K or 10K. You can find a great photographer for 10K and a great photographer for 1K, as well as bad ones at all price levels.

I do think that for my area (cleveland/buffalo area) that 2500 is a lot for just the rights to the photos but it all depends on the photographer and the city. They could be a big time wedding photographer for the stars and charge 10K, or they could be a start up person that does great work but is new to the business and charge much less.

Doing your research for your area and budget is always helpful when it comes to buying anything.

[davepiper]

No, I wouldn't consider mypublisher to be "professional" - but I could see creating some "gift" albums here.

Very very good point,

I use my publisher for proof albums and free albums only. Look at compnay such as GraphiStudio if your after a "top end" product

www.davepiper.org.uk

[photoplaying]

I have the copyright for our wedding photos, but I found that I did not really like the photographer's taste enough to let him do the book, he's so busy, there was not a lot of quality control or my type of artistic taste.

My question is, instead of buying and studying photoshop and doing it all myself on the mac, is there a way to hire someone to do that part and layout etc subject to my final approval?

I asked around briefly but most photographers don't want to do anything with other people's work.

[judbeall]

photoplaying -
drop me an email at judbeall@gmail.com and maybe we can discuss some opportunities ... they are endless! literally thousands of options.

shoot me an email and we'll discuss.

[Sadept]

Great stuff Jon...from the set ups to the shots themselves...by far the hardest shoots Ive ever done were the weddings...it looks like youve been doing this forever which is a great compliment...I have a friend whos a wonderful wedding photographer and never seems to run out of energy or ideas and Im always amazed by his work...looks to me like youre in the same league...

[tracyshinogle]

Hello, I'm a small town photographer in Western Kansas. I try to work mostly with young couples on a very small budget. I'm not a full time photographer, I just do this partime for fun. My largest priced package is only $800. I'm really trying to help those couples who otherwise wouldn't have a photographer because they don't have thousands of dollars. I give each couple a book for MP and they are thrilled, the glossy book cover is a big hit. I don't let the B&G pick the photos. That would require much more time than I'm willing to invest for the small price of my packages. I simply make a nice documentation of their day. I try to make sure all important people such as immediate family are in the book. I give each couple cd's with all photos from the day on them, so if there aren't happy with my book (so far everyone has been) they can simply make their own book. I guess to put it simply, for the price of my packages MP is the most affordable photo book option I've found, and their quality is wonderful.
Tracy
Prairieland Photography
prairielandphotography.com
http://mypublisher.com/bookshelf/bookviewer.py?e=6ooStfZME0Pb2auSgI3K3-OQwLnnCQmR
Here is a link to one of the books I did this summer. The B&G we're thrilled! My cost for the books is around $50. I try to keep the book to 20 pages, some require a few more pages though.