Creating a page layout using Photoshop?

[Bianca]

I'd like to create my own layouts for my book using Photoshop. I've never done this before and am not that experienced with Photoshop. My books size will be the Deluxe Hardcover 15" x 11.5". My questions are: 1. How do I know how big to make my image (or canvas?) size in Photoshop so that when I bring it into a full bleed page into my book it'll fit right? 2. Can (or should) I make the canvas in Photoshop bigger than the actual page size in MyPublisher (for full bleed) to keep the quality higher when it comes in? Or does that not make a difference?

I hope this made sense! Thanks for your advice!

[mypublisher]

Hi Bianca - try this:
Image resolution set at 180 dpi
11.33 inches wide
8.5 inches high
2040 pixels wide
1530 pixels high
File size of about 8.93 MB

Please allow 1/8 to 1/4 on an inch on all sides as bleed, as the gutter, and sides can be cropped during production ever so slightly. Just make sure nothing too important is extremely close to the edge.

Sincerely,
MyPublisher

[Bianca]

Thanks for the help! :)

[MememicBottleneck]

I'm very confused by the mypublisher answer. Bianca asked for a 15 x 11.5 layout and the answer had 11.33 x 8.5. I think that maybe the answer was for the mid size book but the page size is 11.25 x 8.75.

The following was copied from one of the mypublisher help pages.

Deluxe Hardcover

Landscape (horizontal) with the image resolution set at 180 dpi
14.63 inches wide
11.3 inches high
2633 pixels wide
2034 pixels high

Portrait (vertical) with image resolution set at 180 dpi
8.475 inches wide
11.3 inches high
2066 pixels wide
2034 pixels high


Classic Hardcover and Paperback PocketBooks
Landscape (horizontal) with the image resolution set at 180 dpi
11.3 inches wide
8.5 inches high
2040 pixels wide
1530 pixels high

Portrait (vertical) with image resolution set at 180 dpi
6.387 inches wide
8.5 inches high
1148 pixels wide
1530 pixels high


Looking at the portrait versions of the Deluxe and Classic it looks like mypublisher doesn't actually move the binding from the short edge to the long edge, instead they just shorten the book. I assume one would pay the same whether it is portrait or landscape. The Deluxe portrait has the same photo area as the Classic landscape.

[irusan]

You're correct. Basically add ¼" to both the horizontal and vertical sizes to create a file in Photoshop that has the necessary bleed.

So, for the full size, make your file 15.25"×11.75". I would also create it at a resolution of 350.

Rob

[LuvMyM8]

Some Photoshop questions (for the Deluxe 15 x 11.5 photobook):

1. Do you copy your image, paste, and then scale transform? Or do you use the Place command?

2. If you use the Place command, are you resizing your image first (without resampling?)

3. Do you know if MyPublisher trims each page an equal amount at the top and the bottom? Or do they just trim the page at either the top or the bottom?

4. The bleed factor... say you want an image with a bleed at both the top and the bottom. The height of your layout is 11.75 inches. Do you paste your image so that the image height matches the layout height of 11.75 inches and figure it's going to be wacked off? Or do you paste your image at a height of 11.5 inches and hope for the best?

My images are all high res scans of 35 mm negs - 2048 x 3088, 4 x 6 inches, 514 ppi.

Thanks!

[irusan]

> Some Photoshop questions (for the Deluxe 15 x 11.5 photobook):

> 1. Do you copy your image, paste, and then scale
> transform? Or do you use the Place command?

I use place each of mine into the new window. Either method, though, will work. The main drawback to copying and pasting is that you use up your system resources by keeping large images on the clipboard.

You can also use the Selection tool, click and drag the image into your new page.


> 2. If you use the Place command, are you resizing
> your image first (without resampling?)

Typically, I resize and optimize my images individually before pulling them into my new layout. Then I don't usually need to resample.


> 3. Do you know if MyPublisher trims each page an
> equal amount at the top and the bottom? Or do they
> just trim the page at either the top or the bottom?

The bleed amount is the same on all four edges (1.8") but there is an extra amount for the gutter. I can't remember the gutter size. If placement of the image is critical, then I would increase the canvas size by the amount (and location) of the gutter. Otherwise it's not a huge deal for me.

> 4. The bleed factor... say you want an image with a
> bleed at both the top and the bottom. The height of
> your layout is 11.75 inches. Do you paste your image
> so that the image height matches the layout height of
> 11.75 inches and figure it's going to be wacked off?
> Or do you paste your image at a height of 11.5 inches
> and hope for the best?

Actually, it's not that you want bleed on top and bottom - you don't want a border at the top and bottom (or, put another way, you want edge-to-edge printing) In your specific question, make the image the same height of 11.75". Then the image will print beyond the trim box and, when it's cut, you end up with edge-to-edge at the top and bottom.

> My images are all high res scans of 35 mm negs - 2048
> x 3088, 4 x 6 inches, 514 ppi.

As long as the original picture is high quality and the scan was done well, you should end up with a high quality output in your book.

Good luck!

Rob

[MememicBottleneck]

Do not make the photoshop page 11.75. The 1/4 inch trim is not off the album size, it's off the page size. The 15x11.5 is the size of the covers.

Use the sizes listed in my reply above to bianca.

I have to disagree with irusan on the dpi for each page. The books are printed at 180 lines/inch. If you make your page @ 350 dpi, mypublisher will need to scale them again, causing loss of information. It will also lengthen your upload time.

I use the copy and paste method to produce full bleed pages when making a collage.

A nice technique is to take a scenic photo and enlarge it to fill the page as a background. For instance, for a wedding you might use a picture of the church or area where it took place, or for a vacation, a wide scenic shot. Zoom out until you can see gray borders around the page and then adjust the size and position of the photo. Zooming out that far allows you to manipulate the photo outside the boundaries of the page. Rember that up to 1/4 inch of any edge can be lopped off by printing, so you don't want anything important in this area. Once you have the background set, open the photo(s) you want to add to the page. Click on the select tool, and set the feathering to about 20 pixels, more for high resolution cameras, less for low res. You may want to play with it a bit.

Generally I use just the circle/oval or the square/rectangle selection tools. To speed up selection within a photo remember to use the space bar, alt and shift keys. The space bar allows you to drag your selection around the screen before you let up on the mouse key. By pressing and releasing the space bar, you can move and resize the selection until it is right. The shift key allows you to add to the existing selection, and the alt key allows you to remove part of the selection. You can get pretty fancy using just these keys.

Have Fun.

Message was edited by: MememicBottleneck

Message was edited by: MememicBottleneck

Message was edited by: MememicBottleneck

[irusan]

> I have to disagree with irusan on the dpi for each
> page. The books are printed at 180 lines/inch. If
> you make your page @ 350 dpi, mypublisher will need
> to scale them again, causing loss of information. It
> will also lengthen your upload time.

Actually, according to MyPublisher, the press prints at 175 LPI. The purpose of using double the size for the image resolution is to provide the RIP an accurate way to measure the image.

As the press lays down one line, it effectively lays the line down between two dots that are the exact same and the RIP then uses both dots to average the output - resulting in a clean and accurate representation. When doing this, though, it's imperative that the resolution is only double the LPI. Not more, not less. The press' ability to average out the print from double the resolution will provide you with a nice, sharp output.

BTW - for everyone reading this thread (and other threads), we're talking about image resolution and print output at a very detailed level (aka, 'geek speak'). Our (my) goal is to produce a professional-level book that I can present not only to clients, but to art directors, ad agencies, etc. It is the latter group that can be highly demanding about everything and, therefore, I need to care about the best possible outcome.

MyPublisher is incredibly easy and effective application to use. For the vast majority of people, you will get next-to-perfect output simply by using the templates and ensuring that the border around the images in BookMaker are blue and not red.

Rob

___________________________

Fixed a couple of spelling mistakes


Message was edited by: irusan

[janey]

I've been reading the Forum info and cannot figure out why the HELP in MyPublisher says:
"The best image size for printing full bleed (edge-to-edge) in a Classic Hardcover book is 1600x1200 pixels..."

Everyone here is saying to use 2040 x 1530 for the Classic at either 180dpi or 350dpi.

Would someone please clarify...
I've already set up my pages as full page photoshop pages at 1600 x1200 300dpi.

Thanks,

[irusan]

Hi Janey,

1600x1200 at 300DPI will produce a nice print. If you've already set your images to this resolution, I wouldn't take the time to re-edit them to 350DPI.

From this point forward though, if you're comfortable working in Photoshop and creating new layouts and re-sizing images, start with a full page layout (plus ¼" bleed) and set that to 350 DPI.

(MyPublisher was kind enough a while ago to confirm that their presses are 175 LPI; so stick with the 350 DPI resolution)

HTH,

Rob

[Newtome]

I have a question about the image resolution set to 180 dpi. From what I understand dpi is a dot per inch printer resolution and ppi is a pixel per inch size. If I want to produce an album size 8.5 x 11 landscape,using photoshop to design and my publisher to print, what dimensions and resolution size should I use to create a new canvas size for uploading to my publisher. I want full bleed and two page spread with one photo on some. Should I double the width (4080 x 1530) and then cut in half. Won't some of the photo get lost in the galley? I am using PE 5.0 and want to start by setting up a new canvas size. If I can get this part straightened out in my head then I can proceed. Please help me to understand.

[sonja]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding all this, but if I hear that if I'm making an image from scratch, I should shoot for 350 dpi. If I want to do a full page bleed in a deluxe album, I'm looking at an image that is 11.75 x 15.25, so therefore, the pixels of my image will be larger than recommended - such as 5338 x 4113 pixels. Is this correct or have I been looking at this too long?

[Cruiser]

I put pictures on both Classic and Deluxe full bleed that are sized at 350 dpi, file size between 2 and 7 mb. Don't get so hung up on page sizes. If you are using photoshop, make sure you save at the highest number 12 and make sure your pictures are less than 7 mb and more than 2 mb and they will look good in full bleed no matter what Photoshop says the image size or canvas size is. Try it and if you get the blue line and the picture looks clear and sharp, so will your book. I don't resize for smaller pictures either. I just drag and drop and the books print fine. I used to worry about making my pictures the exact size and if you look back on some of my posts, I wore people on this forum out asking questions. Then, I said to heck with it...as long as I have a good file size...not too big and not too small...it will work. I will adjust the pixels to make sure I have at least 1 mb but I would not put that picture in a full bleed.

One last thing...make sure you allow about 1/2" for pictures that will be caught in the binding side of the book. And allow about 1/8" on the other three sides for cut off of the paper. I always put a picture next to the binding side that can afford to be cut off and if I have a picture that might get cut off around the other three edges, I zoom in a bit and leave a black background around the picture. I "eye it in" and if it looks good, I go for it. Not very scientific I know, but it works.

[bostondave01]

Hi Bianca,

I've been doing this for some time, to overcome restrictions that MyPublisher added shortly after I printed my first book. When I did that first 5x7 paperback, they permitted customers to select among cover colors (including mottled colors). But they don't any more. So I've been using Photoshop to put an appropriately colored canvas around my cover images. (Wish I had been there to see their faces when those books rolled off the presses!) Their customer-service people actually told me that they "no longer supported custom colors" on their 5x7 paperback covers. But guess what...if the color is part of a full-bleed cover image, they most certainly HAVE to support it!)

Lately, I've even been putting my cover images in a Photoshop-created "picture frame," and placing a drop-shadow behind it, and a custom background color around everything. And even though I'm using the photos-only template (which allows no captions), I've also added photo-credit text to the last photo...by placing the text in the image itself using Photoshop.

Since I shoot 7MP digital photos, the size issue you mention hasn't been a factor for me. Big image files will, of course, take longer to download, but once in, they can be reduced in size on the book pages, to fit the layout as desired. But...perhaps more critical...if their "aspect ratios" do not match the shape of the page (or the display area), then you may want to lay them out and/or crop them so that everything of interest fits well on the page. Of course, if an image is too small (has too few pixels), you'll get a red outline around it, which indicates that it may not print well. In that case, the quickest fix is to again reduce it in size on the page until the red outline goes away. Or...you could use Photoshop to upscale it to include more pixels!

Of course, it's especially critical to include some extra margin around an image when it contains a Photoshop drop-shadow. They tend to not look good if you crop through them. But again, the aspect ratio of the image vis-a-vis the page shape is at least as important as the size of the margins that you add around the image.

As a bottom line, theoretically, you can combine as many images and text blocks as you want in each page layout. And you can then put them in full-bleed pages. But when designing your page layouts in Photoshop, remember the page's (or the display area's) aspect ratio. And also remember that when you incorporate text in the image files themselves, if you then change these images' sizes on different pages by different amounts, the text on the different pages will appear to have different font sizes!

Message was edited by: bostondave01

[guitfiddler]

I am doing a delux hardcover 15x11.5 Memic posted the following for page layouts:

Deluxe Hardcover

Landscape (horizontal) with the image resolution set at 180 dpi
14.63 inches wide
11.3 inches high
2633 pixels wide
2034 pixels high

I have done my layouts in 300dpi, from other posts 350dpi looks recommended but 300dpi should work? or is this too high being the above suggests 180dpi?

14.63 x 11.3 is the actual page size? Will I need to allow a 1/8" bleed or add for the bleed?

Basicly what will my canvas size be in inches, and how should I set my guides to allow for full bleed?

Also I read in another thread to allow for a .25-.5 for the gutter and I did not see it mentioned here any feed back on this? Where should I set the inside guide to insure images close the gutter will still be visiable?

Thanks

[kds]

Hi there

I would really like to create by own Page Layouts. But, I haven't found a page somewhere that would describe in detail the steps I need to take. I would like to create some simple additional layouts - such as 6 pictures per page containing a variety of orientations.

Can you help? I've done a lot of googling and don't seem to be able to find anything useful!

Thanks! kds.

[kristieL]

I think I have gotten myself lost reading all the different responses to the original poster. So what's the bottom line on image size when doing a full page bleed? Also, I know I want to do a few pages as a two page spread. I had trouble using the another publishing program to do a two page bleed spread so I was hoping this program would be easier, but so far no luck.

Suggestions welcomed!

[kcip]

hello

[kcip]

fxgjzahazrtjjraj

[andy@thevisualab.com]

What size should I make my Photoshop document, including the bleed?

Thanks....